LDoMoE Podcast #24 – Saint Louis Underground 1979 to 1994

The Raymilland downtown in front of “Escape From New York” remnants

Coming of age in Saint Louis, MO was a pretty miserable experience. I grew up in North County, a part of Saint Louis that is pretty isolated from the cultural goings-ons of the city at large. In fact, I grew up in the northernmost part of North County. It was a stone’s throw away from the Missouri River. For all intents and purposes I felt I was in the middle of nowhere. Compounded by this was the fact that I had gone to 7th grade at a private school in the city, got myself into punk rock and then got kicked out. So I knew better than to listen to shit like Styx or Phil Collins. I didn’t want to go to Jamestown Mall. I wanted to play in a band. A hardcore band. The only guys at my school who played guitar were burnouts and they thought punk was for “fags”. No hardcore band for me.

Today, I don’t think people can accurately understand the cultural void that was the suburban Midwest in the early 1980s. No internet. No email. No cell phones. No social networking. Shit, there wasn’t even cable in 1983. Back then the difference between your average kid in Hazelwood, MO and your average kid in Los Angeles was pretty extreme. Now, any kid with a computer can check out the latest Ariel Pink LP and order the same clothes online that the kids in LA are wearing. Good or bad, at that time I really wanted to not live in North County, Saint Louis.

I’m not saying I had it harder in the early 1980′s or anything. Life is hard, period. But it was different then. Isolation was more profound for those of us growing up and yearning for something more. This is one of the reasons that Last Days has a soft spot for out of the way places like Alaska, Yugoslavia or Hawaii. I feel a sense of kinship with these places because I came from an out of the way place myself.

So there I was at 13, all alone and out in the deepest recesses of suburbia and what did I do? I used to ride my bike to the Streetside Records in Grandview Plaza and buy records. I got flyers of shows I could never get a ride to and plastered my walls with them. I read magazines voraciously; Spin, Trouser Press, Maximum Rock-n-Roll, Flipside and most importantly Jet Lag. Why was Jet Lag the most important? Because it was regional and I could read up on what was going in Saint Louis.

My earliest memories of the music scene in Saint Louis were of ads in Jet Lag for bands like The Studebakers, The Morells (who came up from Springfield and were a rockabilly act), The Langrehr Band, The Felons, Be-Vision as well as other bands on the local Test Patterns Compilation LP.

The Saint Louis punk and new wave scene was before my time and the first set of music in this podcast is from that era. Even though it had been going strong for a few years, the first recorded example of it is the 1979 song Rock-n-Roll Moron by The Dinosaurs featuring local scene mainstay Bob Reuter, who start off the set.

To call Rock-n-Roll Moron a “punk” song is a stretch. It’s a great rock-n-roll song. Kinda like one of those songs Johnny Thunders sang in the New York Dolls, all mopey and junkie sounding. And yeah, 79 is pretty late for a first punk recording, especially one that sounds like the New York Dolls, but I already explained all that in paragraph #2 of this here essay. Regardless, it was self-released and once it was released, to paraphrase George Jones, the race was on.

Existing at the same time, The Welders formed in 1975 and dissolved in 1981; leaving behind only a few memories of their live performances. They were St. Louis’ first and only all-female band during the Punk era. A recording session in 1979 for a planned vinyl EP never saw the light of day when the individual backing the release went bankrupt. I have added the song Debutantes in Bondage from this recording session. It is pretty amazing, especially when you consider that the ladies in the bands were essentially in their teens (in North County!) and writing lyrics like “you’re just part of the noveau riche, you don’t fit into my social pastiche”.

Also up in North County, Bruce Cole and Job Ashline were jamming in Bruce’s basement and recording stacks and stacks of bizarro songs with ridiculous titles. The Screaming Mee-Mee’s are part of the great Midwestern archetype of the “planned obsolescent” i.e. the lone set of eccentrics jamming in a basement with a tape deck. The idea is simple and pure; we are obscure and we know this, so we just do what we want. Then maybe get high, make some sandwiches, and listen to what was recorded. Wash, rinse, repeat. For decades. This primitive approach garnered the Mee-Mee’s enough cred to get them placed on Killed By Death #1 #3 back in the 1990s. Hot Sody is a great song and really should be played at Cardinals games but it was obscure and existed outside of any burgeoning “scene”.

Another obscurity from around this time was Max Load who released the X-Rod / Magazine Sex 7inch. Max Load was from Belleville, Illinois which is right on the other side of the river from Saint Louis. Not much is known about the band and I don’t think the impact of the single was very profound in Saint Louis but it is an excellent slice of synth-tinged new wave punk. Rumour has it that the fine folks at BDR Records are planning a re-release and hopefully this will produce more information on this mysterious band.

The “Next Big Thing” would come in the form of four weird looking dudes who called themselves mysteriously, The Raymilland. Much has been said about the Raymilland on this website and I will do my best to not repeat myself too extensively. The highlights are this; The Raymilland started playing isolated shows around town, managed to get some good opening slots, released the Talk/Distant View 7inch and a few comp tracks (including one on an early Sub Pop Cassette back when Bruce Pavitt lived in Illinois), disbanded and disappeared without a trace. I saw them a few years ago at a reunion show and it was one of the best performances I have ever witnessed of any band. I’m serious.

By this point, the secret was out and bands were forming all over the place in Saint Louis including a bunch that would end up on the Test Patterns compilation. The best song on that compilation in my humble opinion is Holier Than Thou by The Zanti Misfits and I have included it in this podcast. Wanna hear the rest of this compilation? You guessed it, the fine folks at BDR have gone and re-released it as well.

Next up we have Brown And Langrehr with the great drum and guitar song Crazy Days from their I Remember 7inch. In the early 80′s Langrehr was omnipotent on the local Saint Louis music scene and this single captures him at his best I think. Not really powerpop, not really punk, Crazy Days exists in a fictionalized, smoke-filled amalgamation of Ciceros, Blueberry Hill and the Billy Goat Hill that my imagination conjures up every time I hear it.

Finally, we have The Philosophic Collage with Toxic Poppies from their solitary 7inch released in 1981. A true mindfuck if ever there was one, The Philosophic Collage also released two demo tapes and a cut on a solitary 7inch comp called On-Slaught #2. The brainchild of a guy named Timothy Tyme who produced, engineered and wrote the songs on the EP, The Philosophic Collage seem to be another obscurity from Saint Louis’ post-punk history. A history that was coming to an end by 1981 and was being replaced by Hardcore.

Before I go any further, I think it is important to acknowledge the contribution BDR Records is making to Saint Louis by re-releasing a lot of this material. Founded by Matt Harnish of the band Bunnygrunt and local punk rock deejay Jason Rerun, BDR has been ravenously combing the archives of the Saint Louis first wave for the last few years and introducing people like me to my own unknown musical heritage. Unlike many cities I have been to, Saint Louis has always had a hard time viewing its music scene in a continuum. A lot of new bands that come along want to destroy what the last wave of bands did instead of continuing it. Athens, GA we are not. Nowhere is the Missouri sense of individualism (made famous by Mark Twain and others) more on display than in the Saint Louis music scene. BDR is doing a great service by reminding us of the early punk and post-punk musical legacy in Saint Louis.

And now onto hardcore….

The first hardcore band I remember was a band called Blind Idiot God. Their demo tape got passed around in the early 1980s and I haven’t heard it in years. Then, before you know it, they were gone. They seemed to exist relatively independently of the Saint Louis hardcore bands that followed in the 1980s. In 1986, they released their debut album on SST and by this point, they were playing miniature instrumental opuses informed by heavy metal, punk rock, dub reggae, and classical music that predated the math rock/post-hardcore of bands like Slint by a good ten years. They had moved to Brooklyn and were no longer really a Saint Louis band.

White Pride were a whole different thing altogether. Scatological to the point of being truly offensive, White Pride caused quite a rift with Maximum Rock-n-Roll and virtually everyone else when they released Peace, My Ass in 1983, and taken literally, that’s understandable. My guess is that the dudes responsible for White Pride probably were very anti-PC before their time, and they chose to “make mirth” with their offensive concept by going ridiculously over the top, all the better to stir up the hysteria of the anti-Reagan left so stridently strident at the time. The combination of the left’s self-righteous indignation and the band’s unwillingness to admit to the possible joke, caused most St Louis Hardcore fans to distance themselves from the band. Into the late 1980′s, nazi skins in town would take the record literally which added to the evil mystique that the band has. Today, it exists as the best known example of St Louis Hardcore to a lot of people in other places, which is a shame since there was so much other good stuff going on in Saint Louis. However, if you listen to Peace My Ass today, it’s pretty blazing stuff and I believe it is an excellent piece of agit-prop designed to piss you off.

Many of the guys behind White Pride were also involved in other local bands like White Suburban Youth, Drunks With Guns and Ultraman. These bands defined the Saint Louis Hardcore scene of the mid-1980′s. The White Suburban Youth demo is probably the best example of the hardcore genre from this period. It’s a bunch of fast, short, bursts about cliques, corvairs and skateboarding. One song in particular, entitled Punk Rock Faggots calls to mind Punk Rock Sucks by White Pride and highlights the ever present St Louis readiness to break from the past. Lyrics like “I like Reagan, cuz I don’t fit in” both placed White Suburban Youth in the new, hardcore “outsider” camp and also indicated that there was genuine conservatism, or at the least, libertarianism at play in the hardcore music scene in Saint Louis.

Drunks With Guns set themselves up not just as outsiders to the punk rock and new wave establishment but also with the hardcore scene they were themselves a part of. Fronted by Mike Doscocil and featuring Stan Seitrich on guitar, Fred Broadhacker on drums and Mike DeLeon on bass, Drunks With Guns released a string of 7inches that define a certain type of hardcore from the 1980s. The “anti-hardcore” Hardcore sound of the 1980′s. Other “anti-hardcore” hardcore bands like Flipper and No Trend were doing the same thing on the coasts but what Drunks added to the mix was a heavy dose of the “riff”. It was half St Vitus / half Flipper and nowhere is that more evident than on their song Wonderful Subdivision which helped defined the grunge sound that would later become much more popular in the late 1980′s in places like Minneapolis and Seattle.

The most important band of the 1980′s, not just to Saint Louis Hardcore audiences but to the Saint Louis music scene in general, was Ultraman. They opened up most of the great shows, they helped other bands get a start and they put on great performances. They grew out of the ashes of White Suburban Youth and by the time they really hit their stride, I was old enough to start going to shows. The number one hardcore club in Saint Louis was a dumpy place just south of the Central West End entitled Bernard’s Pub (at the corner of Lafayette and Thurman to be exact). Run by a shady guy named John Green, Bernard’s started booking shows in the early 1980s, laid dormant for a few years after a vice arrest at an Offenders gig, and then started booking shows again in the mid-to-late 1980s. At this same time, skaters started popping up in the deep suburbs of North County and once I gained access to a ride or two, I started making my way back into the city for hardcore gigs. I probably saw Ultraman 15-20 times over a three year period, mostly at Bernard’s, and they never failed to put on a great show. I’ve added two songs by them on this podcast, one from their second 7inch and the other from their first album. Their importance to the development of underground music in Saint Louis cannot be denied.

After Ultraman, the gates blew open and bands like Dread Finks, Mean Guys From Hell, The Jetsons, Dead Planet, Snake Ranch, Unjust Cause, BFD, Never Alone and the Living End started playing shows in town. One of the best of these bands was a band called Laffinstock who were a bunch of tough looking dudes playing a real precise and intense hardcore that just sounded better than anyone else in the scene. Another band I saw frequently at Bernard’s, Laffinstock released a demo tape entitled Black Mama Titty Juice that they used to hand out before shows. Singer Tim Mize is still pretty active today in Saint Louis, he hosts a radio show on KDHX entitled the Super Fun Happy Hour.

Another post-Ultraman ensemble were Whoppers Taste Good who jokingly described themselves as “Foodcore/Beermetal”. An apt description for a band whose singer would often perform in a suit made of Budweiser beer cases. WTG released two 7inches in the late 1980s, the song Ultragroin is from their first and is a great example of their crossover sound that always went over well with Saint Louis audiences.

A band that did not often go over particularly well with Saint Louis audiences were Duck Duck Goose from North County. Their lead singer, Joe Moomey in particular was flamboyantly punk rock in concert and it didn’t really fit well with the late 1980′s metalcore and skinhead Saint Louis scene. Duck Duck Goose would have been really popular about five years later when bands like Crimpshrine, Screeching Weasel and Green Day started defining the 90′s punk sound. In many ways, they were well ahead of their time. The original bass player in Duck Duck Goose was none other than proto-blogger Malfeitor, who had a punk rock blog entitled Dressed for the H-Bomb way back in 2004-2006, a huge influence on Last Days. Again, five years ahead of his time.

A band that had a decent crossover with the hardcore audience and particularly the more forward-thinking skinheads were The Urge, a ska band who released their demo Bust Me Dat 40 in 1988. In hindsight, The Urge were a fairly average ska-band and the years of subsequently more and more watered down releases have pissed on their early legacy. However, at the time, The Urge were St Louis’ answer to Fishbone. The track Dark Age is a good example of both their energy and their instrumental skill. An example of a band that overstayed their welcome, various incarnations of The Urge can still be seen to this day at local casinos playing watered down funk music thereby further doing damage to their early reputation as the Ska-Kings of St Louis.

By this point, the hardcore scene was starting to implode into a bunch of right-wing nonsense and metal tomfoolery. Other types of bands started playing shows locally and began to define what was going to come after hardcore. Called “alternative” before that term had the negative connotations it has today, a lot of these bands came out of the old Saint Louis Hardcore scene but returned to more tuneful and traditional song formats. One band, Alton’s Judge Nothing, had a great hardcore name that fit real well on a punk flyer but as evidenced by the track TTLS from their first 7inch, they had a pop sensibility from the beginning. Judge Nothing would go on to become one of the premier pop-punk acts of the 1990′s in Saint Louis and are still very well regarded to this day.

The Nukes were very much a part of the early-90s music scene in Saint Louis and were relatively popular. They had a real “Class of 77″ look and sound and their frontman Packy was a great crowd baiter. Opinions were strongly divided on them at the time because they seemed at odds with the flannel-draped “authenticity” of the era. After a few years of being underappreciated locally, they moved out to the Bay Area. They didn’t get around to releasing anything until 1995. I’ve added the great Nukes track Tenderloin to this podcast, even though it is from that album because The Nukes were one of the best local bands after the hardcore scene started to die down and their first album captures their sound quite well.

The Finns didn’t even pretend to be hardcore. They were powerpop plain and simple. The track Hello Mr Jenkins from their first demo tape in 1990 displays their knack for powerpop hooks and harmonies. Visually, the Finns were really unique as well and had a black and white, new wave look (with trenchcoats!) that set them apart from other bands playing at the time.

As the 1990s began there were a whole slew of bands playing alternative music including the death rock of Voice of God, the ska-funk of Sinister Dane, the new wave pop of The Eyes, the rootsy powerpop of Tree Weasels, the glam rock sounds of Tory Starbuck, the grunge band Small Ball Paul, and the pre-Lilith Fair 3 Merry Widows. Many of these bands were terrible (The Eyes and Sinister Dane) and some were pretty good (Small Ball Paul and Voice of God) but a lot of them were pretty nondescript.

The alternative music scene at this point was very diverse and fractionalized. The local independent newspaper The Riverfront Times would promote a lot of lesser bands like The Eyes (who by this point had become the even more awful Pale Divine) while ignoring a lot of the more cutting edge bands in town. As alternative became more and more mainstream, the sound and look of the bands became less and less threatening. Battle lines were frequently drawn between what was “good” and what was “bad” and it was frequently the worst bands that got the most publicity.

The hardcore scene by the early 1990s was grinding to a halt. Drunks With Guns had imploded into two separate bands, one with Mike Doskocil who had moved to Arizona and the other one with Stan Seitrich who remained local. The bad blood between the two of them culminated in Stan removing Mike’s vocals off of a set of early Drunks With Guns tracks and releasing a few subsequent Drunks With Guns 7inches with a 14 year old girl named Melissa singing instead.

Stan also teamed up with Fritz Noble from White Suburban Youth and started releasing 7inches under the name Strangulated Beatoffs in complete commercial isolation. Lick My Butthole comes from the second Strangulated Beatoffs 7inch and is a slice of Midwestern insanity. Stan and Fritz would soldier on for years, periodically self-releasing offensive and experimental recordings. In many ways, they have inherited the crown of planned obsolescence from Bruce Cole and Job Ashline. The tradition continues.

Uncle Tupelo

The music of The Strangulated Beatoffs and the drama behind Drunks With Guns was not the inspiration for the Uncle Tupelo song Outdone but it just as well could have been. Fronted by the stoic Jay Farrar and the slightly less stoic Jeff Tweedy, the Belleville, Illinois band started playing shows locally in the late 1980s, released their first LP No Depression in 1990 and laid the groundwork for the subsequent alt-country movement of the 1990s. Quite an accomplishment really and a shame that the lesser work of Tweedy’s subsequent band, the Chicago-based Wilco, has overshadowed his superior former band. Historically, the genius of early Uncle Tupelo lay in how they bridge the gap so perfectly between the rootsy punk of the Midwestern 1980s and the roots rock of the 1990s. In that sense, Uncle Tupelo was always more Jay Farrar’s band. His world-weary voice and blue collar lyricism defined their sound.

The year after No Depression was released, the once-hardcore band Never Alone released the Hidden 7inch. By this point they had developed a sound much like Uncle Tupelo’s; full of melody, ringing guitar chords and punk energy. The track Seasons may seem like a holdover from the previous hardcore era but it is also very current to the year of its release and is an obscure example of alt-country punk from Saint Louis. John-John from Laffinstock played in the band which helped solidify the credentials of Never Alone even more.

Probably my favourite band out of Saint Louis at this time was another group from Illinois entitled The Dazzling Killmen. I was literally floored one evening when I saw them on the local cable access show Critical Mass. Dazzling Killmen were one of those bands that seemingly came out of the garage fully formed from Nick Sakes’ tortured vocals and trebly guitar squall to drummer Blake Fleming and bassist Darin Gray’s contorted and convulsive jazz-like thud. Darin in particular, was one of the best bass players I have ever seen in concert, second only to Mike Watt. Here was a band that an ex-hardcore kid like me could get behind. The song Torture was from their 1992 album Dig Out The Switch and accurately displays the sheer intensity that this band dealt in.

Dazzling Killmen

By 1992 I was in my early 20′s and had started going to Meramec Community College. I had played in a few bands in my late teens but nothing had ever amounted to anything. I had moved on from hardcore and was into grunge, AmRep-style noise rock and also older bands like The Stooges, Hawkwind, Chrome and Black Sabbath. I hung out with a small clique of people and we all hated living in Saint Louis. Dazzling Killmen, Uncle Tupelo, Strangulated Beatoffs were all amazing bands and at this point they seemed to be ignored by the average St Louis music fan for terrible crap like The Eyes, Sinister Dane and 3 Merry Widows. We would sit around my apartment and decry the state of music. It was very important to us.

I met Mike DeLeon, the bass player from Drunks With Guns at Meramec Community College. We decided to form a band. He knew a guitar player named Jimmy Perroti whose dad was in Iraqi Desert Storm. I knew a drummer named John Coker. We got together and we started jamming in Jimmy’s basement. Although this band didn’t really work out, a number of other bands formed out of these aborted jam sessions. I’m ending this podcast with a set of music from these bands (with one exception) because in the end that was all I was listening to in Saint Louis.

First out of the gate was Fruitcake with Mike and John who ended up releasing the classic Garden of Earthly Delights 7inch on Electric Records. I have included the B-Side Stan which was about Stan Seitrich, the guitarist behind Drunks With Guns and Strangulated Beatoffs and is an excellent slice of psychedelic garage punk.

The second band to form out of the ashes of those jam sessions was my band, The Urban Druids with me on guitar and vocals, John Coker on drums, Chuck Crossan on bass guitar and (towards the end) Jennifer Muckerman on vocals. We played about 10 shows in Saint Louis, recorded a live session for Critical Mass and recorded a demo. The song Female Bodybuilder was from the demo. We had always intended for four of the songs to be released on a 7inch. Alas, we were too broke to do what we wanted.

John Coker also had his own band called Garment Bladder with a couple of other folks. The song Polyester is from their only demo and gives an indication of how cool and different Garment Bladder were. The sax line is reminiscent of Eno-era Roxy Music and the lyrics are a perverted ode to the 1970s.

Around this time, John and I also started recording a hard rock album under the name of Teezar. We ended up recording about 20 songs which I posthumously released on this blog a number of years ago. Much like White Pride, we decided to play it straight with Teezar and not give up the joke. Our concept was by doing it that way we could make people more uncomfortable than if we had tried to create a Spinal Tap-esque parody. Shortly after the Teezar records were completed, I left Saint Louis and would not return for twelve years. I gave up playing music and decided to focus on finishing school in Ohio.

The final band from the aborted jam sessions at Jimmy’s house was Blakklite with Jimmy on guitar and John once again on drums. The song Material Girl is a cover of the Madonna song of the same name. It came from a compilation of Madonna covers that John released in the mid-90s. My understanding is that they were probably the most locally successful group of the original set of bands that came out of Jimmy’s basement. I had been gone a couple of years at this point, so I would not know for sure.

Stepping back outside of my social clique, the last track on this podcast is by the band Bunnygrunt, who were just starting to play shows in 1992 – 1993. When I left Saint Louis in 1993, Bunnygrunt were a new band on the local scene playing a small amount of shows. When I returned in 2005, they were a local musical institution. For many of the kids growing up in Saint Louis in the 1990s, Bunnygrunt was their focal point for the music scene in the later 1990′s. Just like Ultraman had been for me and my friends. The track Macho Beagle is from their great Standing Hampton 7inch from 1994.

Many great bands came after 1994 in Saint Louis including The Geargrinders, The Ded Bugs, The Sex Robots, The Cripplers, Corbeta Corbata, the 75s, The Honkeys….the list really goes on and on. Unfortunately, I was not a part of any of this and would not be the best person to document it. Someone really should though….

I’ve interspersed my own personal history with this musical history because in many ways, the story of Saint Louis Underground Music is partly my story. It’s the story of everyone who has participated in it over the years. I’m moving away again, but is there any question at this point, that Saint Louis has one of the best regional music scenes in the US? I think not. Glass Teeth, Spelling Bee, Humanoids, Tight Pants Syndrome, The Blind Eyes, Doomtown, Egg Chef…again, the list goes on and on and on.

I look back on the Saint Louis Underground Music Scene from the release of Rock-n-Roll Moron in 1979 to now and I am literally amazed at how much good music has come from a town that is generally not recognized as a “music town” by outsiders. I am proud to have played whatever small role I did in all of this craziness over the years and I look forward to enjoying it and playing whatever continued role I can vicariously for many more years to come.

Saint Louis Podcast

Rock-n-Roll Moron – Dinosaurs
Debutantes in Bondage – Welders
Hot Sody – Screaming MeeMees
X-Rod – Max Load
She Wore Metals – RayMilland
Holier Than Thou – Zanti Misfits
Crazy Days – Brown and Langhrer
Toxic Poppies – Philosophic Collage

Untitled – Blind Idiot God
Punk Rock Sucks – White Pride
It’s a Clique – White Suburban Youth
Rector Breath – Ultraman
Empty Threats – Laffinstock
Ultragroin – Whoppers Taste Good
The Misfits – Duck Duck Goose
Eggboy – Ultraman
Dark Age – The Urge
TTLS – Judge Nothing
Hello Mr Jenkins – The Finns

Tenderloin – The Nukes
Lick My Butthole – Strangulated Beatoffs
Outdone – Uncle Tupelo
Seasons – Never Alone
Torture – Dazzling Killmen
Stan – Fruitcake
Female Bodybuilder – Urban Druids
Polyester – Garment Bladder
Giver of Rock – Teezar
Material Girl – Blaklite
Macho Beagle – Bunnygrunt

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53 Responses to LDoMoE Podcast #24 – Saint Louis Underground 1979 to 1994

  1. Emerson says:

    “Intensive Purposes”?

  2. Ray Leisure says:

    I was in Blakklite. I can tell you all about it.

  3. Joe says:

    @Emerson – Well said!

    @Ray – So it was you, Jimmy, John and…?

  4. Dave says:

    This post is pretty intense. Looking forward to checking all this stuff out. I could never have put together something like this about my own local scene, even though I’ve lived in Connecticut almost all my life.

  5. Jason Ross says:

    Nice post Joe, and thanks for the kind words about our BDR releases! Next two projects will be full LP collection from The Retros and Max Load. …and whether you wanted it or not, here’s some info on those…

    The Retros were one of the most popular late ‘70s bands around town, and rightfully so. They had a great melodic punk sound. Certainly full on PUNK, but the songs all have great hooks. They did some 4-track demos (only known copy is unusable due to tape stretching, which causes squeal louder than the music…for the most part), and managed to record a live in the studio session at Webster University in late 1979. That session was captured on tape, but without being able to gain access to that studio again…the reel was never played/heard until last year.

    Max Load was one of the small handful of regional records I knew of or owned before moving here from Wisconsin in ’98. Like the Mee-Mees, I first heard them on a Killed By Death compilation. I met the original bass player shortly after moving here. He was selling records at the local record show, and when I bought his $1 copy of the Max Load 45…he let me know he was in the band. Terry Jones, the main brain behind Max Load seemed to be impossible to find. I spent years following up on dead end leads, mailing letters to dozens of “Jones” names/addresses in the Belleville area, bugging everyone who once knew him, etc. I finally tracked him down a few months back, and I asked about reissuing the 45 (at least) in the first ten minutes of conversation. Luckily, they had a lot of unreleased demos, and we’re putting together a full length collection due out early next year.

    …and not to nit pick, just my opinion….but The Screamin’ Mee-Mees-Live From the Basement EP was released at the very end of 1976, although it states ’77 on the label. If the Dinosaurs get a pass as punk, then I’d think the Mee-Mees should…making it the first punk era vinyl from the area. Certainly Punk in spirit and approach….and probably more punk in attitude/lifestyle than any other band in St. Louis then or now.

    …and a bit more trivia probably only interesting to me…the Brown and Laghrer 45 was recorded by Greg Black of Raymilland in his parent’s basement. Though the songs are pretty great, I think it’s the production that really makes it. There was a pre-B&L 45 released when they played as The M Street Band. Songs are a bit more of a ‘70s rock feel, but good if you dig the B&L 45.

    …and a question I’m hoping you or a reader could shed light on….I know the Nukes were around in the late ‘80s, and I borrowed a cassette only release (not really a demo…a pro-duped/looking job) that I seem to remember is from about ’89. (I’m not at home to check) In all of the materials I’ve borrowed from people in doing BDR research, I could swear I saw their name on some early ‘80s bills, and pretty sure I have a picture of them playing live from ’82 or so.

  6. Jason Toon says:

    Great post. One minor point: the Nukes did release a full-length cassette, entitled NOW, in maybe 1990. It’s much, much better than the CD they released after they moved to SF – specifically, much closer to ’77/mod sound and songwriting. They tried to get heavy, or contemporary, or something on the ’95 album and it’s much weaker all around.

  7. Joe says:

    @JToon – Yes, I looked all over the interwebs and my own archives for the Nukes NOW cassette. It was way better. I couldn’t find it and didn’t want to NOT put the Nukes on the comp. So I used a track from the inferior later album. I agree with you totally about the change on the 95 album. I liked the Nukes a lot in 90 or so.

    @JRoss – Good point about the Mee-Mees. Hadn’t realized that it was released before the Dinosaurs. I always viewed them as existing outside of any genre other than their own genre but clearly that would be the first StL Punk release if it was released in 76. I don’t have the 7inch, just a copy of KBD #1. You’re also right about the Brown and Langrehr release although I think the songs are pretty cool too. The production has punch! and not the same Nukes in 82. I thought the same thing you’re thinking back in 89, having remembered the older Nukes from my bike-riding, Jet-Lag days. Steve Pick or John Korst would probably be a good resource on the original Nukes.

  8. Tony Patti says:

    Lots of nice details about the hardcore scene that I missed out on because I couldn’t hang with the punker-than-thou excesses that seemed to escalate into absurdity. You definitely hit all the high notes I remember!

  9. Scott says:

    One of your best posts ever, Joe.

  10. Ray Leisure says:

    Missy. She was a 13 or 14 year old skater chick from SoCo. Mike DeLeon played bass for about 3 or 4 months after I quit. I was playing bass on Material Girl. It was actually released on a Madonna Comp that Andy Ortmann put out with a bunch of other bands. John might have had something to do with it, but I’m pretty sure it’s on Nihlist Records, which Andy is head of.

    We didn’t play out a great deal. First show was way south at some teen joint. We drove the whole audience away after a snide comment from Jimmy. Most notable shows were at the old Cicero’s. One was with the Queers and the other was with Chicksdigit. We also kind of destroyed Devin Triplett’s (sp?) apartment at one of his new years party.

    Also, I’m prety sure I have some video copies of Garment Bladder “Polyester”, Urban Druids “White Trash Mecca”, and about 8 other bands from that time period. I brought them all into the “primitive” 3/4 inch studio at Webster and made some videos of their songs. I’ll see if I can find it.

  11. Ray Leisure says:

    Also, great post. I was at Bernards a lot so reading through I was filled with nostaligia as I saw most of those bands along with you and know all the same people. I have a bunch of John Coker music also. He used to send it through the mail to me for years. Anyway, thanks for the memories.

  12. Joe says:

    @Ray – sounds like we ran in the same circles. I have an old moldy VHS of the Urban Druids assault on Critical Mass. A White Trash Mecca video eh? Would love to get a digitised copy of that.

    That Madonna thing was on Ortman’s label you’re right. But I think it was a collaborative thing with Coker because he had this conceptual art-school thing with Madonna. The packaging came with all kinds of classic Coker-related crap….and yeah, I used to get “care packages” from John for years in the mail. That’s how I got the Madonna thing actually.

  13. stephanie says:

    Good God. I have to reserve more time to really read this, but those first five paragraphs are so true…STL was just really culturally isolated back then. Well, every place was…we were happy as hell to get months-old copies of Melody Maker, Punk, etc. And Joe, I was working at that Streetside in Grandview (and later Hazelwood) then…1982 until whenever. I was one of the original Welders. And as I type this, apropos of nothing we are listening to White Pride, with my husband good-naturedly bellowing along in the kitchen. And it’s not even a full moon.

  14. richard stupidhead says:

    do I know you? I grew up ijn NoCo and and know that Streetside and a lot of the band members you mention (Dosk is just as manic as ever, but he’s a kinder and gentler Dosk now) Gabe of B.I.G. is just as soothing a guy you’d ever want to talk to.

  15. Joe says:

    @Richard – I met you a few years ago (if I am thinking of the right guy) at City Diner at like 4:00 in the morning. I was with Mark Early and a few other people. You’re older than me by a few years so I don’t think we knew each other personally back then. Like the story says, I was pretty isolated until I could start driving. The only Drunk I ever knew was DeLeon and the B.I.G. guys were seniors at Crossroads (at least one of them) when I was in 7th grade. But I guarantee we at the least, bumped shoulders once at some gig.

    @Stephanie – Man it was heartbreaking when Streetside left Grandview but I was pretty close to driving by that point. Do you remember a used bookstore at Paddock Shopping Center (Parker and 367) that carried stacks and stacks of NMEs and Trouser Presses? I remember walking in there one night and coming home with a stack of those…Trouser Press with the Birthday Party flexi being the best find. It was definitely cool to find out that the Welders were from NorCo!

  16. OTTO says:

    Whenever anyone does one of these scene reminiscences (sp?) I’m always struck by just how tight knit it all was and just how isolated most of us felt culturally. It really is something kids today can’t grasp. I would listen to the punk shows on local college radio… WPRB in Princeton, WKDU from Philly… to discover new bands. Most shows played very late at night… after my bed time on school nights. I would set my alarm, wake up in the middle of the night, hit play/rec on a 120 min cassette and go back to sleep. Some nights the reception was bad (I was out in the ‘burbs) and I didn’t get anything… sometimes I was lucky. My friends and I would review these tapes like archeologists pouring over an ancient papyrus. I still remember hearing Minor Threat for the first time… Husker Du… YDI… Ruin

  17. Joe says:

    @OTTO – I totally agree. We had a show called Pipeline that was from midnight to six AM on Saturday nights at the local UMSL station and it was the same thing. KCFV at Flo Valley had a couple great radio shows (Radio One and Faster and Louder) but I lived right down the street so reception wasn’t an issue. It was from 8-midnight on Saturday nights. The cassettes would only hold 45 minutes a side…it was insane how desperate we were for something real.

  18. This is a fantastic overview, but I’d like to offer one small correction, because I want the credit: Fruitcake’s “Garden of Earthly Delights”/”Stan” 7″ was put out on my short-lived label, Electric Records. I also released the Screamin’ Mee Mees “Pull My Finger” single. There is somewhere floating around an entire disc full of Fruitcake stuff that is some of the most searing and psychedelic post punk I’ve ever heard. It’s a masterpiece, and I wish someone would finally release the whole thing. John Coker and Mike DeLeon were an amazing combination.

  19. Joe says:

    @Randall – Duly noted! Sorry for the error…my records are all in storage so I did a lot of this from memory.

  20. Michael Doskocil says:

    I got a couple of comments from Mike Doskocil and I can’t post them in their entirety because he makes some pretty extreme accusations about another local musician from Saint Louis. I don’t wanna get in the middle of any of that shit, I simply wanted to document the story of Saint Louis music as I experienced it. He did request that I remove Zombie and I am gonna go ahead and do that outta respect cuz I do have a lot of respect for Mike. But I gotta leave some of his comments out, out of respect to the other musician he talks about. —Joe

    “Like My Butthole”? Really? That’s deserves to take up precious space on yer podcast? Must not be much of a podcast, outside of the Zanti Misfits track. And what’s up w/ “LMB” anyways? I don’t even get that. Is it supposed to be funny? Shocking? Gross? See, when I sang for the DWG, I didn’t want to use any expletives (outside of the one that accidently came thru in my “rap” on the 2nd side of the debut 7″). It was my thought that the band’s MUSIC be offensive, if anything. Same reason we didn’t have any “Overthrow the Gov’t” songs. Again; the MUSIC was supposed to be the political. Like when Elvis (not that I compare myself w/ Him) was on TV; they didn’t show him from the waist down, THAT was the threat. Not his lyrics. I didn’t want to resort to “poo poo caka caka doo doo” w/ the Drunks, cuz by 1984; what was the point?

    BTW; I wrote “Zombie” when I was in high school, back in 1980. Got the cassette tape to prove it, too. I brought it to the DWG cuz I wanted to finally get it down on tape in a real recording studio. Like most of everything else that band ever did, it was taught to the group at once, by myself, with me playing the Mad Conductor; telling everyone their parts, and how to play them. Anyone who’s ever shared more than a few drinks with me know this isn’t a far stretch to believe. And one listen to anyone else’s material AFTER their time with my DWG drives the point home further. I don’t even have to hear “Lick My Butthole” to know it sounds nothing like the DWG songs I wrote. Ditto for Strangulated Beatoffs, Fruitcake, etc. So, …there. Just had to get that out there too.

  21. @joe
    no worries joe. i’m really looking forward to hearing all this stuff in one place. thanks for putting it together.

  22. Packy Reynolds from The Nukes says:

    Growing up in North County I can appreciate everything the writer said. What a great local scene we had and I’m blown away at how many good bands there were. Sometimes I miss the old North County. What a crazy, fun time it was to be in a rock band.

  23. Joe says:

    Packy! – I would love to get a copy of Nukes NOW! and post it. I looked all over for the video of you guys on Critical Mass and couldn’t find it.

  24. padraig reynolds says:

    Joe, shoot me an address and I will send you a copy. The CD “Why Things Burn” sounds better and rocks hard. Here is something else you can post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRVKKMgxhaI

    A lot of North County bands played at Kennedy’s – I have some Animal House footage as well.

  25. Kevin Coed says:

    Just a small correction – ‘Hot Sody’ is actually on Killed by Death #3, not #1.

    Would love to see Michael Doskocil’s post in full – I love stuff like that!

  26. Joe says:

    @Kevin – Correction noted. No such luck on Mike D’s original comment!

    @Packy – Yeah, I was going to try and list all the clubs at some point in this post and you are totally correct that Kennedys as well as Animal House were mainstays for any NorCo punker.

  27. Tim McAvin says:

    A lot of people think of Lydia’s Trumpet as the missing link of early nineties Saint Louis music. but they seem to be entirely forgotten about in all of the histories I read.

  28. MrFab says:

    Apart from opening my earholes to music I’d never heard, I’m fascinated with the whole living-in-small-town/Midwestern-city isolation thing. Details like these mini-scenes, what restaurants and bars were popular, what people did for fun (I love the the Pittsburgh scene documentary “Debt Begins At 20″). When you’re born and raised in L.A., effortlessly tuning into Rodney Bingenheimer’s show, having all this culture ripe for the picking hanging all around you, it can be fascinating to see what life is like elsewhere – the America I see on cross-country drives.

    Write a book, Joe! It’s working for Chuck Klosterman…

  29. Martin says:

    Hey, a great history of your hometown and enjoyed the podcast, hats off to you! I’d only heard/of DWG and the Dazzling Killmen over here back in the day. Really liked the latter’s song (amongst others) but the Madonna cover rules! Fuckin’ hilarious.

  30. Heath Parker says:

    @ Ray – Balklite didn’t play out that much? Then I must have seen every show! You guys always played with bands that were of a very different stripe than yourselves. I saw you guys bum out a lot of mall punks!

    @Joe – Since this goes out to 1994, one sub-scene that is overlooked is the West County Bastille’s scene of the early 90s. There were quite a few bands that rotated through there. And a few local bands put out a 7″ comp called… I can’t remember…. ‘Here’s to the Chef’ or something. It had Haymarket (not to be confused with the more recent Chicago band Haymarket Riot, this one was STL and had Andy Ortmann’s little brother Ted on drums) as well as the Meat Sisters and a couple of others. I was there less than 10 times but they had a nice thing going.

  31. Joe says:

    @Heath – This was never meant to be a all-inclusive list of scenes and bands but more of a personal walk through the time I was involved with Saint Louis music. My old band played the West County Bastilles a few nights after Kurt Cobain killed himself and we emptied the entire club when we started making jokes about it from stage. In that way, Blakklite and us were very similar. Ortmans brother was also in a band called Vegan Reich I believe which I always thought was a great name….

  32. What a great find (linked to on MetaFilter 11/24)–I have many hours of music recorded on cassette tapes off the radio of Andy Ortmann’s program on KDHX, in the early 90s. I’d also like to give a shout out to Tim (Calvin) Squires, who turned me on to a lot of good music when he was working at Streetside Records.
    Do you remember a band called Voice of God? I have a poor quality cassette copy of an album of theirs, but if I could find a better file online, or a CD, that would be awesome.

    (I grew up in South County)

  33. Joe says:

    @John – Voice of God is mentioned in the writeup….totally ridiculous over the top band for the Looo!

  34. Jason Toon says:

    Ah, cool, this is still going on. Some more bits of info:

    @Joe – Ted Ortmann was definitely a vegan but not a hardline thug and never played in Vegan Reich. He was a deceptively preppy-looking noisecore freak and generally nice guy. Last I heard he’s a mailman in Austin.

    @Heath – That 7″ was called Compliments of the Chef and was put out collectively by my band (the Meat Sisters), Caffeine, Haymarket, and Sea of Heds. There was about an 8-month gap between the recording and the release, and by the time it came out Haymarket had gotten much faster, noisier, and screamier. They were not happy with their tracks on that record, which have a more early 7 Seconds sound (not that they were going for that, it’s just how they sounded). I think they’re great myself.

    Although Bastille’s was the center of that scene, of those four bands only Caffeine was from West County. The other three bands were city kids – at the time, Sea of Heds, Haymarket, and the Meat Sisters all had members who went (or had gone) to Metro and SLUH. There were a bunch of West County bands around, too, but we hit it off best with Caffeine.

  35. Jason Toon says:

    I should add that when those bands started, there was nothing, NOTHING going on all-ages-wise in the punk scene here. Ultraman, the Nukes, Judge Nothing, etc. were playing but that was a different world and most of the time we couldn’t get into those shows.

    For our first couple of years in the Meat Sisters (91-92), we considered ourselves lucky when we got to play with a thrash-metal band because at least they were vaguely similar. More often we played shows with the crappy generic sorta-grungey alt-whatever bands that were everywhere at that time.

    By ’93, things picked up considerably: Killer Shrews Productions started bringing a lot of touring DIY bands to town – sometimes too many! I remember the Meat Sisters playing 8 local shows in August 1993 alone.

  36. Joe says:

    @Jason – I always thought Vegan Reich was ironic. Never thought of them as hardline. But then again, I never saw them or anything. You’re right that 91-93 was a bleak period for new bands. It seemed like a logical breaking point for my podcast because of it. I know I’ve said this before but I would love to hear another podcast like this that goes from 91-93 to now.

  37. A few note-worthy additions, if I may. (not just bands I was in) MAN IGNO are one of the best & most over-looked prog/punk/noise groups from the early ’90s. I preferred these guys to the Dazzling Killmen any day.

    I was in HIPPIES IN FLAMES, along w/ my brother, Ryan Hill & Jeff (Geargrinders/Afternoon Delight KDHX / Tight Pants Syndrome) Hess. H.I.F. formed in ’92, relocated to Seattle in 1997 & stuck it out from 1992 in St. Louis to 2002 in Seattle. (releasing a 12″ LP “Burn One’ & a 7″ called “Punk Rock For $ale”, featuring the St. Louis line-up.

    Another mainstay musically would be Ray Johnson, who played in: Blockhead, New Iron Column, Glassman & Shiva.

    the Saw is Family has been clearing rooms & dishing out extreme Chrome/Flipper-esque dirges now for over 20 years!

    In 1989, I was short-lived hardcore band, Dogfight. (our peak was opening for Fugazi at a sold-out 1227)

    Shortcut were an awesome straight-edge band from North County.

    ….Plus you have to include Very Metal, Drunkabilly, the Unmutuals, Rev. Crusty Mudd

  38. ….Oh yeah, I forget about the Ortmanns. Ted & Andy. Ted was way into the whole “speed-core-vegetarian” thing way before the rest of the sheep. I remember bands; Friendly Fire / Enemy Fire, Haymarket & Sales & Marketing.(w/ Goya bros.?)

    Andy & Mark Fisher, (Skingraft) definitely deserve an honorable mention for being at least 10 years ahead of the pack w/ regards to post-punk, no-wave, artcore.

  39. Joe says:

    @Ben – Andy and Mark Fisher deserve a mention but at the same time, they moved to Chicago pretty early on and are more associated with Chicago than St Louis (except to a handful of Saint Louisans). Andy Ortmann would have been on this except I was trying to stay in the realm of rock music, something Ortmann didn’t really play. I don’t know any of these other bands (except the Unmutuals who I forgot). Like I mentioned to Toon, I never heard Vegan Reich or any of the other bands Ted was in. I remember joking about Vegan Reich with Andy..thats about it. Was Shortcut the band with Brian Lapinski?

    Keep in mind this post was a personal remembrance of St Louis, not an all-inclusive list of every cool band that ever came from there. Thanks though for writing in. Wish I could hear some of this stuff….

  40. …last one, I promise. In 1988, I formed a speedcore band called Dain Bramage. We opened for Adrenalin O.D. at Bernards. ( I duped the faculty at Parkway Central into announcing it over the intercom, since 3/4 of the line-up attended PCH) We also played at Furst Rock, (the 2nd Bernards) w/ a great hardcore band, called Justified Violence, and Rednecks in Pain, from TN. Another great Illinois “Whoppers-era” band that really dug was THOSE ONE GUYS.

    DAIN BRAMAGE had an amazing drummer, named Clayton Gore, who at 17 could play along w/ “Reign in Blood”, w/ out barely breaking a sweat. He was in Eulogy from Tampa, FL & currently is in Harkonin. (based in Bellville) He is one of the best metal drummers I have ever encountered. Bar none.

    When Shortcut & Dogfight both broke up in 1990, I formed a hardcore band called DISCOURSE, w/ Brian Mary from Shortcut on guitar,(for a second) Mike Pauli on vox, + Tom Sink on drums & Jason Revelle on bass. We recorded a 6 song EP at a home studio right across from the Webster Groves Skate Park, that never got mixed down & I don’t even have the reel anymore. We played Bastille’s a bunch, Club 367, Brian’s, other short-lived dives….and after changing line-ups,(losing Mike & Brian) went for a more thrashy approach, (I was really into Canadian Speed Metal at the time: Sacrifice, Razor, Voivod) DISCOURSE’s moment in the sun was opening for GWAR at Mississippi Nights, in place of the Melvins in 1991. We released 500 copies of a 7 song demo in 1990. Shortly after disbanding I found a flier Ray Johnson had left on the glass of the copier, looking for a guitarist who wasn’t into “wanky, pentatonic crap”. This re-introduced me to: Ray + Jeff Hess, Steve Marqis,(Nevermores) Louis Guise & good ole Al Swacker. This is all old news

    In 1994-5, I sporadically booked shows at: the 1st Way Out Club, Cummel’s Cafe, the 2nd Bernards, Lobo’s Den & Johnny’s on Grand. Johnny’s had some great shows.

    I left St. Louis for good in 1997, but did a one-off as the Geargrinders drummer in 2007, at Kopper’s “Blow Me Show Off”….err, I mean “Show Me Blow Out”, yeah, that’s it.

    Honing my punk chops in the Loo would pay off years later, when I joined the legendary FEEDERZ as drummer for the 3rd LP “Vandalism: Better Than a Rock in A Cop’s Face” & the ensuing tour.

    Slingers & toasted raviolis biyatches!

    Ben Wah – Hollywood, CA

  41. Joe says:

    Heh, I opened that Show Me Blowout with Left Arm. That was a good time. Thanks again for all the info!

  42. Yeah, Lapinski played bass.

    I remember Caffeine! I think the 1st version of Discourse shared the bill at Bastille’s. They were good!

  43. Bob Ising says:

    I was in a band during the Club 367, Bernards Pub era 1990-95 called “Scapegoat”, I moved to DC and came back in 1998 to form “King Gambrinus” – we are being old punks still going without the recognition and not caring much. We recorded live with Tim Mize on SFHH 88.1 , 5 different time during 1999-2004. He is awesome, so is Bob and Sherry. They really helped me get through the “I’m an old, punk, songwriter” years. Good document here

  44. GGJim aka SickBoy back in the day says:

    Awesome podcast, i just discovered this….btw the White Pride album can be found on mediafire, just google White Pride mediafire and there it is in all its glory…

    GGJim aka SickBoy back in the day..

  45. Halden Spoonwood says:

    Fascinating read! I remember much of this.

    I was actually in a project with John Coker called SPeWBUCKET Drainage Basin around the time he was doing Fruitcake, Urban Druids, etc… We put together a few cassettes, but he could never convince me to do shows.

    Garment Bladder was my favorite of his projects.

  46. Dan Sauter says:

    Awesome article. Check out the interview with Chuck Lindo (bass player for The Nukes) on Music Life Radio http://www.musicliferadio.com/2011/07/039-american-professional/ for more info about the band.

  47. Jeff says:

    I did a show at the Focal Point in Webster the line up (was my band),Gutwrench,(ex-north countians Scapegoat) we opened, El Gordos Revenge, Blaklite, Rusted Shine,The OFR, (they were a walk on, asked if they could play and I let em, they had brought about 50 people with them), and Shiva as the headliners (ex- Man Igno). Anyway I recorded the entire show for 150 bux to the soundguy, (at least someone got paid). Good quality sound board recording. Blaklite’s set is the standout ( the song about Jon Benet Ramsey is awesome). It was the only time I ever saw a guitar played with a toy ray gun. Cool show we crammed 200 into a 100 person venue.

    Anyway let me know if you are interested in copies I am gonna transfer them to CD. Thanks to all the bands that played. I am not distributing this release and copies are available to any and all of the bands that participated.

  48. jimmy says:

    Blacklite was fun, thanks for remembering us. Ray, you sound bitter.

  49. pj says:

    This is a great retrospective of the St. Louis alternative scene! I still have fliers, demo tapes, and records from some of the bands that Joe/the commentators mentioned (e.g., a “Sentinels of Liberty” demo tape Skin Grafters Rob and Mark recorded back when they worked at 2nd Story Comics in Kirkwood). It’s great (albeit somewhat surprising given our geography) how often I see STL bands material on wantlists and internet auctions all over the world.

    I was in a band called Very Metal from 1994-’95. Whereas many of our peers (especially the bands from West County) were playing Fugazi-inspired tunes, we were into Black Flag. We opened for several local bands and even a few out of town bands at the late, great Bastilles and a couple of the downtown venues. Our frontman, Josh, had a flair for the destructive– often landing us in hot water with club owners and on the s-list of many audiences. In fact, I think we were actually banned from Bastilles at one point after one of Josh’s antics. One might say that what we lacked in talent, we tried to make up for with an “engaging” stage show. Sadly, our bassist/guitarist, Brad Cassidy, has since passed away. I believe that, post VM, he was also in some of the bands that Ben mentioned. Anyway, I just wanted to pay tribute to him, my friend Danny McClain (Grand Ulena), and any other local musicians that are no longer with us.

  50. Dan says:

    Per: Ben Wah Balls says:
    January 10, 2011 at 5:11 am about DISCOURSE..

    Ben Reagan…..didn’t you forget the other guitar player in the band? If you remember, it was me, you and Tom Sink playing in DISCOURSE when we recorded our demo in Ill. We did the Hardcore Fest at Bastilles and opened up for GWAR at Mississippi Nights. We were going to record our 1st CD production Cataclysm, but Tom and I wanted to practice a little bit more to make sure we nailed it in the studio. You got upset, and went and started playing for a stupid ass band called New Iron Column.

    DISCOURSE could have been really great and the new material was off the charts. Ben Reagan did write a lot of the music and lyrics but Dan Beard also contributed to the musical synergy of the band. I just wanted to set a clear pic on this blog to everyone.

    Funny that your out in Hollywood Ben, I live in Long Beach. Clayton Gore mentioned that to me months back.

    Cheers!

    Dan Cadalora (BEARD)
    DISCOURSE Guitarist/Singer/Songwriter

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